Listening to RC Sproul’s “Renewing Your Mind”, which I’ve done on occasion for a long time, I found myself almost passing out. The title was a Q & A and Inerrancy and the series was “War on the Word.” Some good things were said on this episode starting 7:05 like,
…there is no way you can give a one to one verbal correspondence from one language to another…
It was stated by various commentators (the comments in parentheses are mine),
NIV is not concerned about verbal accuracy, it’s thought for thought (This is an incorrect statement)
Every translation is a commentary
There’s Bible’s for bowlers
Disgraceful to go into the Christian bookstore and look at the Bible section
The whole point of this so-called talk was subtle and dishonest attacks against the NIV, TNIV and the NLT. It was suggested that these translations are just about money and they are a “war on the word of God”. In the end, this whole things leads to a pied-pipering to the English Standard Version. All I have to say is bye, bye Ligonier Ministries and Renewing Your Mind. My time is short and there’s better things to listen too that don’t waste my time.
Posted by Sue on July 3, 2009 at 4:51 am
Hey,
Have you seen this?
This is from an article called “Evangelical Lap Dogs”, by R. C. Sproul, which appeared in an excerpt from the November 2002 issue of Tabletalk:
“Actually, the TNIV appears to be a move not toward greater accuracy but away from it. One example: In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus says, ‘Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.’ (Matt. 5:9). The TNIV changes sons to children. But the Greek word huios in its plural form means ’sons,’ not ‘children. ‘My Latin Bible translates it ’sons’ (filii). My German Bible, my Dutch Bible, and my French Bible translate it ’sons.’ Likewise, every English Bible I own translates it ’sons.’ Indeed, from the first century until today, the whole world has understood what the Greek says.”
I am not sure if you know but the KJV, Luther and the Dutch Bible all say “children of God.” I think he is right about the Latin and French Bibles though. 2 out of 5 is not so bad, I guess.
Posted by A.Admin on July 3, 2009 at 5:00 am
Sue,
I have not ever seen that article. Weird, it’s like these people are under some spell or something when it comes to anything else other than the ESV. Speaking of Bible translations for money…ugh!…I better stop.
Posted by Sue on July 3, 2009 at 5:25 am
They are mistaken. Its that simple.
Posted by tc robinson on July 4, 2009 at 7:52 pm
RC should leave translation issues to people are better qualified.
Posted by Are Calvinists turning into ESV-Onlies? | The Church of Jesus Christ on July 5, 2009 at 5:31 am
[...] they call themselves, who use and teach the English Standard Version like many use the KJV. This blogger tells us of an attack against the NIV, the TNIV and the NLT by Ligonier Ministries: The whole point [...]
Posted by ESV Only? | Onward, Forward, Toward... on July 5, 2009 at 5:31 pm
[...] article entitled Are Calvinists turning into ESV-Onlies? links to a very interesting article from a blogger who has now lost respect with RC [...]
Posted by Are Reformers Becoming ESV Only? | Onward, Forward, Toward... on July 5, 2009 at 7:55 pm
[...] article entitled Are Calvinists turning into ESV-Onlies? links to a very interesting article from a blogger who has now lost respect with RC [...]
Posted by Sue on July 5, 2009 at 8:21 pm
I will post a jpeg of this article this evening since it was questioned in the past.
Posted by Ligonier and the NIV « Aberration blog on July 5, 2009 at 11:46 pm
[...] July 5, 2009 by A.Admin Continuation from a post here. [...]
Posted by Sue on July 5, 2009 at 11:57 pm
I have posted Sproul’s article here.
http://powerscourt.blogspot.com/2009/07/esv-onlyism-and-sproul.html
Posted by Polycarp on July 6, 2009 at 2:37 am
It looks like you have helped to start something! I have yet looked at the ESV – but this has insured that I will not give it much time.
Posted by A.Admin on July 6, 2009 at 3:08 am
Polycarp,
I would encourage you to examine the ESV if you have the time and the want to. While this may be a shock to some, I’m not really concerned about the ESV translation itself. I’m more concerned about some of the bizarre beliefs that some of it’s translators and would be proponents propagate. ESV Onlyism, or maybe in some circles literal translation (by their definition) Onlyism, has been birthed.
Posted by Sue on July 6, 2009 at 3:31 am
Since I have been watching this for the last few years I have posted some of the material I have read and reviewed.
http://powerscourt.blogspot.com/search/label/ESV%20onlyism
Posted by Polycarp on July 6, 2009 at 3:35 am
It amazes me that this is actually happening to another version. Thanks for the updates and articles, Suzanne. I’ll be posting a bit tomorrow morning as well.
Posted by A.Admin on July 6, 2009 at 4:02 am
Polycarp,
In reading some or Ryken’s and others material, you’ll find that some of these people are former KJV/RSV devotes. The NIV was preferred by the masses over the RSV in the 80s and supplanted the KJV as the standard text for the English reading Bible world. There appears to be a lasting grudge against it and whatever springs from it, like the TNIV. But this is just my opinion.
Posted by The Rising ESV-Onlyism and Gender-Inclusive Language | The Church of Jesus Christ on July 6, 2009 at 12:01 pm
[...] some favourable posts about this translation a few weeks ago. CD-host took up the topic, and then Aberration blog, and now Polycarp and Onward, Forward, Toward. (From [...]
Posted by Douglas K. Adu-Boahen on July 13, 2009 at 10:20 am
This Bible translation war is heartbreaking. You’re actually cutting off anything to do with Ligonier over a difference in Bible translation? I use the TNIV and ESV interchangeably – something of which Sproul would disapprove. Personally this is a small issue, being made into a major one by both sides of the discussion. If you see an ESV being used by a ministry which teaches the truth, then just ignore the ESV and listen to the truth being proclaimed. Again, I find this trench war over one translation to be a waste of time and intensely heartbreaking.
Posted by A.Admin on July 14, 2009 at 1:59 am
Douglas,
I appreciate some of the good points you made, but I’m not cutting them off over a difference in Bible translation. I’m discarding them for factual error, mostly over comments about the NIV and lesser, NLT. Like you, I find trench warring over translation to be a waste of time, however the other side isn’t going to budge or stop with their mistakes.
Posted by E on July 14, 2009 at 8:14 pm
I remember being at the ETS meeting a few years ago when the ESV was introduced. IIRC, J.I. Packer was one of the speakers. He and others went on about how accurate and how much better yada yada the ESV was. It didn’t take a lot of looking at the free copy of Romans (I think) they handed out to see that the ESV, like all translations, hits some things and misses others. Some verses in Romans belied its claims of being better and more accurate than other translations, etc., etc.
I think it was also at the same conference that a well-known ESV proponent was dissing the NIV vis-a-vis the ESV in one of the sessions (not a general assembly, but one of the small-room sessions that a co-traveler of mine attended), and a fellow Biblical scholar stood up and rebuked him, saying something to the effect of: “_____, you know that what you’re saying is not the truth.”
Producing and marketing a new Bible may not all be about money, but a lot of it is about money.
Posted by A.Admin on July 15, 2009 at 12:46 am
E: Thank you for sharing your firsthand experience. I’ve long suspected this. Stories like this have confirmed those suspicions.